I had originally planned to do a tank DPS analysis of HoF, but we didn’t get to Empress. So I should be able to do it next week. Instead I’m going to talk about Symbiosis.

I’ll be the first to admit that for a very long time I was firmly of the “I don’t care what you get, I only care what I get” belief when it came to Symbiosis. This continued through all of MSV as well. Retrospectively I think it was because those fights were actually pretty damn easy. Even from a tank perspective. However after getting into Heart of Fear I’ve totally changed my mind.

I now almost always put it on our Holy Paladin.

To see why let’s take a quick look at my raid composition:

  • Guardian
  • Blood DK
  • Holy Priest
  • Resto Shaman
  • Holy Paladin
  • Rogue
  • Ret Paladin
  • Mage
  • Hunter
  • Moonkin

Of my available options only a Blood DK will give me anything to help stay alive. However I’m having literally 0 problems doing so assuming correct play, so that’s pretty much a waste. Holy Priest, Rogue, Ret Paladin, Mage, and Hunter are all literally quite worthless. So that just leaves a Resto Shaman or Holy Paladin.

The problem with a Resto Shaman is that Lightning Shield requires you to get hit in order for it to do damage. Since Savage Defense should literally always be on cooldown when tanking (except certain fights), Lightning Shield loses its attractiveness. Plus it also gives the Shaman something completely worthless. So that just leaves the Holy Paladin.

When using Symbiosis on a Holy Paladin you get Consecration. I’ve actually come to really like it. It’s extra DPS, especially on AoE fights like Wind Lord. But the most attractive part of this is that the Paladin gets Rebirth. One of the things that Blizzard has changed significantly in MoP is in making sure Tanks are almost always doing something. Despite the fact that we now have Nature’s Swiftness getting a Rebirth off is actually a lot more problematic than it sounds. Consider the things that tanks do in MoP nowadays:

  • Generate resources to stay alive.
  • Constant movement.
  • Dump out as much DPS as possible (especially true in HoF) – even when not tanking

You can’t do any of these things if you’re running around trying to find the dude who died on the other side of the room. Especially not with a boss chasing you. It’s much, MUCH easier to simply pop a cooldown while a healer scoots over to grab them really quick. Not only that but the chance of a wipe is typically drastically reduced as well.

What about you guys? How have you been using Symbiosis?

12 Comments

  • Dýr says:

    My raid team runs 2 druids, me (the Guardian) and a Resto. I tend to give mine to our Frost DK (who tried out plagueshroom once and loved it so much since he gets to be lazy with his diseases, he gets all depressed and whiny when I put it on someone else on a couple situational fights), and our Resto druid normally puts it on our Shadow priest for the spare Tranquility.

    No one else in the raid group gets anything else they really use on a regular basis, we run Guardian druid, Blood DK, Frost DK, Retribution paladin, warlock, hunter, mage, Shadow priest, Disc/Holy priest, Restoration shaman, Restoration druid, with one spare DPS for swapping in/out. We have multiple repeat classes, so fewer options for Symbiosis, but the comp works out well for us haha.

    I take Consecrate from our Ret sometimes, and our Resto likes having Icebound Fortitude or Iceblock on a couple fights, but usually we stick to Boneshield/Tranq since all 4 people involved tend to get the most mileage out of that setup.

  • sewid says:

    Holy paladin rebirth is unfortunately quite a bad version. People pop up with 20% health. With all the raid damage going out it’s rare my holy paladin uses it for fear of wasting it. I do still give it to her for Garalon though since I can’t find another use for the spell on that fight.

    I give it to our hunter on Tay’ak to help him sprint thru tornadoes.

    I’m a cat for Zorlok so Divine Shield was awesome for F+V until they nerfed the boss so that F+V doesn’t actually hurt enough to warrant cooldowns.

    Generally though, yeah our raid sticks to the Guardian->DK, Resto->Priest formula that offers something for the everyone …

  • Findme says:

    In movement heavy fights i give my symbiosis to our dps warrior, it’s really nice to have a second stampeding roar in situations were your raid needs to move from point A to point B. (see Elegon, Blade Lord Ta’yak, etc) and when it’s not a movement heavy fight holy paladin.

  • Elamari says:

    I think giving symbiosis to the holy paladin so they can use rebirth is a good choice, having the battle rezzes handled by healers and dps takes pressure of you and the other tank.

    I also like having consecration as a tank. I like having an extra damage button to press that doesn’t require me to spend resources or require extra thinking.

    ~Elamari

  • Genzen says:

    I usually seek out a Shadow Priest if there’s more of them than there are Druids – I think an extra tranquility has more value than anything else.

    I like Consecration because it’s a free AoE dps button, and can even be dropped in one place to pick up adds whilst I move to another place. The Rebirth from a Pally is good, but, as someone else mentioned, the 20% life thing makes it less desirable if I have the ability to use NS and pick ‘em up with 100%. Lightning Shield from a Shaman is nice for enrage timers, since more dps over the course of the fight is always good. Usually, if I don’t have a Shadow Priest target, I’ll go with one of these two.

    Then there’s the DK and Monk for the extra survivability CDs if they’re needed, and then after that you’re scraping into situational stuff like Stampeding Roars and Ice Traps.

    Generally I go with Shadow Priest > Paladin > Shaman > DK > Monk > whoever.

  • Kurzaa says:

    My issue with NS is that it appears to only let me cast in bear form when I pop it, so I have to use the ability BEFORE casting a healing touch on myself. If I need an emergency heal for some reason, the last thing I need is to pop out of bear form to hard cast a HT because a missed that I still had 3 seconds on the cooldown.

    Also, I then have to choose between a heal every minute or saving NS for a rebirth. But if we already lost one player, can we really afford not to have me get the heal?

    So I like the idea of shifting my rebirth to the paladin, especially now that we have a holy one, though I am not thrilled about the 20% health. What was the point of standardizing the battle rezzes if they just turn around and nerf them?

  • Mowse says:

    For Garajal, I usually give our mage or lock symbi so that they can heal themselves in the under phase, especially if a healer derps and doesn’t go down with them. Generally, I just give the lock shitty rejuv, it’s better than nothing. On fights where we had our hpal, I gave to him for the rebirth, but also because I like the consecrate. On HFeng I gave to the hunter to use his trap for additional slows. I also give it to him on Tayak so that he can dash through the tornadoes. When we cleared toes, we replaced our warrior tank with a dk so I just took his bone shield for extra help. Never hurts to have more cooldowns. Those are the only fights I can think of really that I actually consider who to give it to in order to benefit the fight…but honestly half the time I don’t even remember to put it on someone because it’s so worthless >.> I had typically been of the opposite mind of you, especially after they changed it so that I basically got NOTHING from anyone, and we didn’t have a dk until recently so I would just try to decide who would benefit the most from it. Meh.

  • Vorticose says:

    I’m really liking Consecration a lot of the time, but Holy Pally Rebirth is weak (20%) and dangerous. There are definitely times where the tank should not be attempting Res, but I’ve been able to get off a few. I agree it’s often better to let someone else get it (preferrably another druid, warlock, or DK).

    Similar the Shadow Priest Tranquility is a very weak version of our tranquilty (less than 1/5th of a proper tranq) and it’s HPS than Flash Heal, I suggest to my guild’s shadow priests that they just heal with Binding Heal, PoM, Flash Heal instead. Well timed use of their L90 talent makes a much bigger difference.

    If you’re getting Lightning Shield from a Resto that can be annoying because it doesn’t interact properly with Earth Shield, even though both buffs go up, only one is triggered at a time :-(

    My favourites are still the selfish options of DK or Monk, with pally as my backup. Symbiosis doesn’t feel that exciting as a Tank, I have way more fun with it as Feral!

  • Panchoko says:

    I usually give it to our Ret paladin, he kinda fell in love with wrath, and in some fights it’s pretty usefull (mostly phase changes where the boss is out of range). Plus I get the lovely consecration, which imo is the best we can get (bone shield is kinda meh).
    I have a resto druid in my group so rebirth isn’t an issue (unless he dies, lol).

  • Callie says:

    Oh I’ve come to really, really like my Bone Shield… It makes me feel safer, and my DK co tank whether he’s tanking of unholy dpsing grewpretty attached to his mushrooms (yes he gets whiny too when he’s not “Symbiozed”).

    I really like the whole Symbiosis thing.

    For now, I’m rather thinking : stay alive (give Symbiosis to the DK) than : go DPS (getting Consecration from our Paladin).

    But for the moment, we didnot have issues with resurrecting people, since we often have 2 DK or a DK and HDrood, sometimes we even get the hold on a Warlock.

    I’m thinking, for Wind Lord in example, I may rethink my Symbiosis for a Consecration, but I’m not there yet.

    I’m not sure about the SPriest Tranquility : is it worth it ?

  • Chisame says:

    I give my symbiosis to my monk tank for most of the fights in all 3 instances.
    On Elegon and Lei Shi I give it to a rogue since the breath on elegon was the only thing that was dangerous for me and it is nice during the explosion soak aswell, and on Blade Lord Ta’yak I sometimes give it to a warrior for roars in p2 and I give it to a Paladin on Wind Lord Mel’jarak for more aoe dmg.
    But I am raiding 25man instance so symbiosis on paladins for rebirth have never been a problem.

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