UPDATE 1:(Frequently asked question) Why is the value of Blessing of the Grove so low? A: Just about all the talents and glyphs that increase our healing have been found to stack additively instead of multiplicatively (with the strange exception of Master Shapeshifter). With 25% from Gift of Nature, 15% from Improved Rejuvenation and 10% from Glyph of Rejuvenation (and for some people, 4% from Genesis), and Harmony (our Mastery). Assuming 15% Harmony, 2/2 Blessing of the Grove only really increases your healing by 0.04/1.65 = ~2.42%, instead of the expected 4%.
If you’ve been following the updates on PTR, you would know that Efflorescence no longer has Living Seed as a prerequisite. Living Seed has always been a lackluster talent, but most Restoration Druids tolerate it because we want to have Efflorescence. Now that Living Seed is no longer a prerequisite, it should be an obvious choice to drop that talent, right?
In my opinion, it is not so simple. Two candidate talents to move points into are Blessing of the Grove or Nature’s Bounty (although you are likely not to have enough pre-requisites to move all the points to Nature’s Bounty). Are either of them really better than Living Seed? Fortunately, it’s easy to determine that with some napkin maths, which I have done for you in the form below.
All you need to do is to go through one raid session worth of Recount/Skada/WorldofLogs logs, and obtain the percentage of total healing done by three spells: Rejuvenation, Living Seed, Regrowth. Enter in the amount of Genesis, Living Seed (NOTE: you need at least one talent point in Living Seed for this to work) and Nature’s Bounty talent points you have, and your raid buffed spell crit%. Click on calculate, and the form will calculate for you how much % of your total healing each of the 3 candidate talents is worth – per talent point.
- Rejuv % of total healing done
- Regrowth % of total healing done
- Living Seed % of total healing done
- Genesis Talents
- Living Seed Talents
- Natures Bounty Talents
- Spell Crit %
- Mastery Rating
- Blessing of the Grove:
- Living Seed:
- Natures Bounty:
If you take 3 points out of Living Seed, you can only put them into your Resto tree (since most people roll with the minimum 31 points in that tree, and then spend the other 10 elsewhere for mana management), so really it is only a debate between Nature’s Bounty and Living seed. Also, if you are trying to compare anything to the boost from Genesis, shouldn’t you take all HoTs into account, such as Lifebloom, Tranquility, and Wild Growth, since Genesis claims to effect each?
Blessing of the Grove
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=78785
is not the same as Genesis.
Except that you need to put 1 point into either Blessing of the Grove or Living Seed in order to get the 15 points needed to Natures Bounty.
I think Nature’s Bounty’s value is not just in Regrowth. In fact, the main reason I take Nature’s Bounty x3 is that at times of heavy damage in a boss fight, there’s a very good chance that I’ll have Rejuvenation on 3+ targets, and when this happens, my Nourish is that much faster to cast, which means that I can spam it on the tank and others, rather than not catching up with the damage with my Nourish and resorting to Healing Touch. Basically, Nature’s Bounty allows me to use more Nourishes rather than resorting to Healing Touch. I think that’s NB’s real value. But I’m happy to one day read here counter-arguments on this.
The value is subjective, so it’s hard to include in an objective study
May we see all the forumla’s you used to determine your spec please?
Hi, you can use your browser’s “View Page Source” to see the formulas. Enjoy!
So does this calculator assume that we have your spec?
This calculator only assumes:
1. Glyph of Rejuvenation
2. Improved Rejuvenation
3. Restoration Spec
Is there any calculator for us with 0/3 living seed?
I’m sorry, this is not possible because with 0/3 living seeds you will get 0 heals from living seed from your logs.
It may be possible to estimate what your living seed will be based on the amount of Healing Touch, Regrowth, Nourish and Swiftmend healing you do as well as your Crit%, though.
So this is my silly two cents. this is the result I got. Blessing of the Grove: 0.19236646350358985
Living Seed: 0.3666666666666667
Natures Bounty: 0.6273806856374636
i currently have BoTG filled out but only 2/3 in living seed. got 3/3 in natures bounty. would that mean that i should take one point out of BoTG and put it into LS or take a point out of say furor and put i there?
You should not have more than 31 points in Restoration.
You should have 3/3 Moonglow and either 2/3 Furor or 2/3 Genesis
Hey tang could you have a quick look at my toon and spec and tell me if there is anything i should be doing better? (if you have a couple mins to spare) thanks
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/bleeding-hollow/Brocules/simple
You should move Furor into Moonglow, otherwise everything else is fine. I assume you are raiding 25man if you are not taking Nature’s Cure?
yeah im in 25 man. im contemplating not taking living seed at all and putting the extra points in moon glow and basicaly relying on heavy spirit – mastery conversion and good mana conservation. is that stupid?
You can’t, you will have less than 31 in Resto
Could you check me out see if you can spot room for improvement? Overall im not happy with the way my healing is http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/bloodhoof/Bumtitbum/simple
I only heal guild 10 mans but after 4.3 im having issues rebuilding my tree.
You should go for the 2005 Haste Cap. Using http://www.reforgemaster.com/?character=bumtitbum&server=Bloodhoof+-+EU&submit=Load+Character&updateFromArmory=Yes
Set TOTALS: Haste = 2005
Set WEIGHTS: Crit =2, Haste = 9999, Mas = 1, Spirit = 2
You will reach a max of 1913 Haste, only 92 short of 2005, but you can easily enchant/regem towards there.
Your spec looks good, but I think for 10 man Nature’s Cure would be a good idea.
Is there anything in particular i could take the point out of to get Natures Cure back? living Seed for instance? most of my healing is raid but occasionally im keeping the tank up
Ya, Living Seed is probably the one you would take out for Nature’s Cure, and Nature’s Swiftness.
I could use some help. I have left out Furor of this completely because I find other talents to be more of importance. I am progressing at Madness HC atm 10man, and have problems getting a good spec for it. No need for dispell, since there’s nothing to dispell.
My suggestions are as following: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#0hbhZZMfzIdcru0uo or http://www.wowhead.com/talent#0hrhZZMfzudcru0uo.
So it’s between Genesis and Living Seed in this matter. Or if you can give any other suggestion for a good overall spec for this fight. It’s very heavy damage, most for the tank(s) but the raid needs to get healed up asap as well.
Here’s my armory, if you want to take a look: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/talnivarr/K%C3%ADsaragi/advanced
I’d still recommend taking Furor over Genesis or Living Seed. If you must choose between Genesis or Living Seed, Genesis should be better unless you are the designated MT healer.
To balance out the slight loss of throughput, you should reforge as much Spirit as you can over to Mastery. With your current gear you can reforge 300+ Spirit to Mastery and still retain exactly 2005 Haste Rating.
Thanks for your answer. I am a bit afraid of dropping more Spirit specifically for this fight but it’s one solution. We are three-healing the fight with 1 tank atm, and at some points all three needs to really spam the tank to keep him up. If raid takes no damage, we are all on tank.
But you’re saying that if I would take 2 Furor instead of 2 Genesis and reforge away 300+ spirit I would get that throughput loss back and still get 2005 Haste. Interesting. I will try it tonight and see how it turned out to be. Thanks for your help!
No problem. Let me know how it turns out!
Hi again. Just stopped raiding for tonight, and I can confirm that I didn’t even feel that I lost ~300 spirit, so the Furor might have done it. I also didn’t feel like it did hurt my healing as well by losing 2 genesis. I didn’t know Furor could be so important tbh. Thanks for giving me little insight into this.
Hi Tang,
just wanted to remark that you might want to update the link to your spec to some talent calculator, since you are specced Feral atm.
Great work, keep it up! Cheers
Hmm ya sorry, my raid doesn’t need me to be offspec resto anymore so I specced out of that
Hi was was wondering if you could give me some advice on spec and gearing/reforging. I’m in a 10man guild working on Hc DS our targets atm are zonoz, haggara or ultraxion with ultra being more of a long shot. On Zonoz i am tasked with focusing on the tank and help with hots etc when i can on others, (same thing for yor’sashj but we have him downed and sorted). Our healing team consists of a holy pally, Holy/Disc priest and myself.
Here’s a link to my armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/shadowsong/Tarazan/advanced
I think i want to go back to 2/3 furor and 3/3 MG but i am kinda stuck on how many to put into living seed and NB? I want to keep NC & NS as both are used a lot. With regards to gear i am really not sure how much spirit i need (since i got Heart). I do also have hc t12 shoulders and legs as they 4p t13 isn’t great from what i’ve seen. I currently use MrRobot for reforges and i like the website for sorting enchs reforges etc. But i feel i have too much spirit atm as im not using innervate that much. If they would help i can link some WoL’s as well.
Any help you can give me would be much appreciated and thank you in advance.
*Update* I have changed to a spec i think is what i should have, if it is i just need some help with how much spirit i should aim for and any other tips on reforges. I currently have roughly 4k spirit regen in combat which i think is too much.
thank again in advance :-)
Heya, you’re in your Feral gear atm so I can’t comment about your gear. Your spec looks great to me, exactly the spec I would recommend for general Resto use now, although if you’re primarily MT healing (though it’s rare for a druid to be assigned to that) it may help to have 3/3 LS.
Ah sorry about that, i forget sometimes to go bk to resto gear. I am in it now and will try to keep it that way when i log out so you could check it out. Thanks again :-)
I think you have way too much Spirit, and should reforge as much as possible to Mastery. Here’s what your reforging should look like: http://i.imgur.com/4McDW.jpg
I thought so too, but was having a hard time finding a rough amount to have as spirit is more a personal thing in some ways (what your comfy with). Btw what website is that? I have been using askMrRobot for my reforges etc for some time but i do agree with the way too much spirit.
Would you recommend another website or can u help me with setting a “cap” on spirit on askMrRobot?
thanks for all the help btw i really appreciate it :-D
*edit* i found the website and copied the weights etc you made to get the same results. Just curious if those are the weights (roughly) i should be aiming for (that’s the 3,9,1,0,0,2,0,0 one’s)? and with A.M.R you can export the reforges to an addon called reforgerade in game and it then does them all for you. Not needed really but nice to have, can i do that from reforgemaster?
Cheers Tarazan
There’s no need to set a cap on spirit, just set it such that mastery is prefered over spirit. Be careful of amr, it gives too much weightage to haste in between the breakpoints. Yes, reforgemaster is the site I use, but the weight system is different – seems to be inverted weights. AFAIK there’s no way to export it into the game.
Instead, I recommend using ReforgeLite in-game mod, modified with the following weights: Haste=200 Mastery=160 Spirit=150 Crit=120 Haste>2005=30
After using reforge master to get the same results as you got in your linked image i find it quite nice to use, just new to me so i need to poke around on it a bit to get used to it.
I also thought amr was giving haste to much weight but didn’t want to start messing with it too much, like i have at times with my feral os (as it doesn’t need to be, as perfect shall we say). With regards to ReforgeLite thanks for the tips and stat weights for resto; i am curious if you use this for any alts and are the default weights good / ok for them? They don’t need to be perfect but i do not research my alts as much as my main and thats where amr is nice and if RFL can do this for me saves me some alt tabbing :-).
You have been very helpful with all my questions i have asked and i would like to be cheeky and ask one more ;-). I also use amr for their gear lists / rankings more as a general guide than a must fellow list; do you feel this list is good enough or do you have a better alternative? I now i’m asking a lot and i am so grateful for all the help you have giving me.
Hi, I’m just getting back into resto healing from a long break and was wondering if you could take a look at my spec/reforging..etc. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kiljaeden/Threefold/advanced I plan on raiding 25mans.
I’d move 2 points from BOTG into Furor, and 1 point from NB to LS (to meet tier 3 talent points requirements). You could probably reforge more spirit to mastery.
I don’t think it will matter much now though with the 25% nerf and all