My apologies, the mini-calculator in the addendum to Reesi’s post about the Thick Hide changes was a terrible rushed job. I’ve since found time to analyze the changes further.

First, I’ve updated my spreadsheet for 4.0.6, and there is a separate tab for 4.0.3 values for comparison. At the bottom of the main tab, the differences between 4.0.3 and 4.0.6 are calculated.

I initially calculated that the Damage Reduction is increased by ~12%, but this gives, by some weirdness of maths, an decrease in Damage Taken by ~16%. With the removal of the ghost talent’s 12% Damage Reudction, the decrease in Damage Taken by ~2%. However, the removal of the 6% AP buff also means our Savage Defense absorbs have been nerfed by 6%. Adding it altogether, our Damage Taken per Second is pretty much unchanged – I’m seeing a ~0.04% different.

It’s almost as if the 78% number was deliberately chosen to fit what the ghosted talent used to give us.

Thick Hide – Theorycraft

February 8, 2011

4.0.6 went live today and with it the confusion with Thick Hide.  Is it buffed?  Is it a bug?  Why are there no patch notes on it (other than a vague hint)?  Why am I out of syrup?  Armed with only snippets of knowledge, the best approximation I can give is that yes, it is intentional and that the 10k armor gain isn’t a lie (but the cake is).

So, why?

A little back story, if you’ll allow me.  When 4.0 launched before Cataclysm, we all had this tremendous armor buff and none of us had any idea where it came from or why.  After a bit of research, people were able to determine that Thick Hide was giving us a 78% armor contribution from our gear.  None of us understood why.  It wasn’t annotated, and we certainly saw no need for the buff, but there it was.  About a week and a half after 4.0 launch, Thick Hide was hotfixed as a bug back to the 33% it was supposed to be… until today.  That’s also a main reason why many of us were wary of this change and the rumors whispered from MMO Champion when the PTR first went up.  It could be 4.0.1a all over again.

But my question is, did they hotfix the right thing back then?  There is/was another bug.  Hidden, if you will, to all but those who were able to notice a minute inconsistency and then pursue it.

When Tangedyn and I were looking into Vengeance to figure out how it was truly calculating, he and I noticed something else strange that couldn’t be explained away by any conventional means.  Attack Power.  I had extra attack power that I shouldn’t have had.  Despite everything, adding in all the multipliers, adding up all the buffs, going through possible scenarios, etc., we couldn’t pinpoint it.  Tangedyn eventually surmised that I was getting an additional 6% attack power while in Bear Form.  But from where?  Why?  We thought it to be a stealth buff.

Tangedyn got into contact with someone with connections, and the response was something unexpected: A talent bug.  One that the Devs knew about and were intending to fix with 4.0.6.  One they didn’t want to fix right away.  How long the Devs knew about it, I don’t know.  What I do know is that it meant a large portion of Bears were afflicted by this bug without knowledge.

I hope you’ll forgive us, but we chose not to mention it further except in private conversation.  Had we been forthcoming, it would have created a small amount of upset that none of us wanted to fuel.  In fact, it probably still will.  To be honest, I have to wonder if some of their damage changes were fairly done (it was needed, but depending on the numbers they viewed, it could have been a bit inflated).

But damage output is neither here, nor there.

So what is this talent bug, and why were only some bears affected by it and not others?

When 4.0.1a went live and the talent trees were redone, there were a few talents here and there that became ghosted.  If you were in the right spec with the right talents during this change, you suddenly had extra bonuses you shouldn’t have had.  Feral Cats experienced this with the (old) Predatory Strikes talent, which increased damage from melee critical strikes by 10%.  This was hotfixed out soon after.  What was ours?  Ours was a bit more significant than that.

Protector of the Pack.  Our old damage reduction talent.  If you were in bear spec at the time of the Shattering, you have had this bonus until today.  And yes, you had this bonus regardless of which spec you were in.  So long as you were in bear form, you were gaining 6% more AP and an extra 12% damage reduction.  I say “extra” because that 12% reduction is now in Natural Reaction.

It was like a double rainbow…

Until I realized I’d be taking more damage after the patch.  And believe me, I already take a silly amount of damage.  Well crap.  It also means a lot of new Bears are taking the damage we were all intended to take, and why some bears say they hardly take any, and some say they get wrecked.

That brings me back to the intention of Thick Hide originally.  Should they really have hotfixed our ghosted Talent in the beginning instead of our Armor?  Or did they just not realize until after the fact?  Either way, those of us that knew about this bug began to guess that our new and improved 78% Thick Hide is intentional as a way to make up for the ghosted talent we’ve had for over 2 months.

To be honest, I’m still wary of this nearly undocumented change.  It is a lot of extra armor.  I can’t explain the real why, only produce conjecture based off what I know.  With this change, we will be taking a more magical damage (12% more, but still less than the other tanks thanks to Perseverance), but less physical damage.

It’s possible this was done to compensate for the second loss of PotP.  It’s possible it was done to combat our weakness against AoE tanking.  It’s possible it was done to even us out on Hardmode tanking, where other tanks’ blocks scale off incoming damage and ours does not.  It could also be because we have a fairly low amount of self healing, and our increase in healing gained is a cat talent.  It could be a combination of all those things.

Until we’re told it straight, all I can do is guess and hold my breath.

____

To see how this buff affected your physical reduction, please visit Tangedyn’s mini calculator:  http://goo.gl/EAhbD

From his calculations, it’s roughly a 12% (sound familiar?) physical damage reduction, dependent upon your own armor.  The only thing those affected will notice is an increase in magical damage taken.

This is a post about the relationship of Agility and Stamina, how it pertains to gearing, how it pertains to raiding, why certain choices are made, and how you can make those choices for yourself.  I will be explaining the differences between Agility and Stamina: why we prefer one over the other, and what impact each has on tanking.

Many of you are now looking to raid, have started raiding, or are even starting to get into heroic raiding.  The question then becomes: “Do I stack stamina? I see other tanks* doing it.”  The immediate answer is: No.  Agility is better the majority of the time.  However, deviating from the path of Agility isn’t as taboo as it’s made out to be, and I suppose I have myself to thank for that.  And like the good little bear that I am, I’m going to try and correct it, or at least provide some insight to this heated debate.

* As many of you have already guessed, I’m referring to Sejta and the other top world bears.  But, I will get to them later.

As I have said, Agility is the best stat a Bear has.  It is a trifecta of awesome coated in amazing sauce and wrapped in bacon.  …Because everything is better wrapped in bacon.  How could you not love such a beautiful thing?

My personal love affair aside, it is important to understand that we don’t stack agility for just its avoidance.  Whenever this is being talked about, it’s better to state that we stack it because it is our avoidance and our mitigation and some threat (Though AP and Crit have never been that large for threat… I haven’t actually looked at a threat stats break down in a while, but I doubt that’s changed).

Here’s a slightly better breakdown of what Agility gives us, because as I’ve said, it’s as awesome as bacon.

Avoidance through Dodge

This is a given. Per point, Agility gives less dodge than Dodge Rating.  A Bear equipped with sockets in about every piece of gear and gemming towards agility will only get about 2% dodge.  Though if you remember Tangedyn’s Avoidance post, that isn’t as bad as it seems.  Every percentage of Dodge better than the last.

Mitigation through Dodge

I am not saying that Dodge is mitigation.  What I am expressing here is that dodging attacks extends the uptime of Savage Defense.  You crit, you get SD, you dodge, you get hit and use up SD.  That’s two attacks instead of one that you’ve taken less damage on (or none at all).  Most bosses swing slow enough that this is a very good thing.

Mitigation through Crit

This is a given.  More critical strike frequency leads to a higher uptime in Savage Defense.

Mitigation through Attack Power

The higher our AP, the bigger our Savage Defense absorb can become.  And contrary to popular belief, SD is on par with block for single target.  It only starts to fall behind when getting hit for 50k+ or more consistently. 1 point of Agility gives 2.8875 AP assuming full buffs.

Threat through Attack Power

The bigger our mangles, the better our threat.  ([23:47:28.388] Reesi Mangle Exposed Head of Magmaw *78938* -  Full vengeance during Mangle is great. [btw, you can attack the head while mangled ;P])

Threat through Crit

Crits are automatically 2x the damage.  Threat is 300% of your damage.  So if Magmaw’s head had a threat table, that would have been a 236,814 threat gain (helloooo ridiculous).  Again, crit isn’t godly for threat (that was an inflated number as it was), and because of Vengeance threat is a joke.  We like crit because of its mitigation importance.

That’s 6 things that Agility gives us.  Six. Correct me if I’m wrong here, but no one stat for any class gives that much benefit.  This is why we stack Agility.

If Agility is that good, then why is it commonplace to gem for Stamina and even vehemently argued about?

Let’s take a look at what Stamina gives us:

Health

1 point of Stamina nets 17.99721 HP, which is a fair amount of HP.  Despite everything else, Druids still have the highest Stamina modifier.  Health is a key component to living (But you knew that already, didn’t you? ;) ).

Time to Live

Time to Live is defined as the amount of time a tank will last while not receiving healing.  Stamina is the only thing that will extend that time indefinitely, restricted only by gear, and reliably since it is always there.  Time to Live really saw its prime in Wrath, where if you did not have enough health to last 2 consecutive hits, you were going to die without a doubt.  Heroic Lich King stretched that ideal to the extreme, because without as much health as possible, combined with timely cooldowns, a tank could die literally within a global cooldown.

Time to Live effectiveness is reduced when you are receiving any kind of healing.

Mitigation Through Attack Power

Ever since figuring out the correct formula for Vengeance (no thanks to Blizzard), we’ve been able to find out that 1 point of Stamina is only going to give a Bear 1.285515 AP, down from the 1.799721 AP per point we previously thought.  But here’s the catch: Stamina will only have the benefit of mitigation if you are hitting your own Vengeance cap.  (Vengeance Status is very good for monitoring this and has been updated to reflect the proper formula.)

It should also be noted that Vengeance AP is affected by Feral Aggression and buffs such as Trueshot Aura, giving Stamina a maximum potential of 1.767583125 AP per point.  Again, this is assuming Vengeance Cap.  If you are not reaching cap, then Stamina doesn’t provide any mitigation bonuses.

Threat Through Attack Power

Like Agility, and assuming Vengeance Cap, Stamina gives AP.  AP helps threat.  However, on this front it is so minuscule it was almost not worth mentioning.  I knew someone would bring that up if I didn’t.

Essentially, Stamina is safe.  It is constant.  It creates a reliable buffer between life and death while allowing your healers to have slightly more time to react to incoming damage.  It’s the main reason why it’s argued for.

Sound better than Agility already?  Hold that thought.

Stamina’s consistency was a staple in Wrath.  It isn’t so much in Cataclysm.  In order to make the best choices in gemming and enchanting for yourself, it is quite important to understand the relationship both Stamina and Agility have with Bears.  Knowledge breeds informed decisions and informed decisions breed good tanks.

Agility heavily contributes to reducing incoming physical damage but, while irrevocably mathematically better, is dependent on RNG and does nothing to reduce magic damage.  Stamina contributes solely to Time to Live and creates a safety net for when things go wrong, but does little in the ways of physical mitigation and also nothing to reduce magic damage.  Having an over-inflated health pool can put a strain on healer mana if they are always trying to top you off (and they are).

Bear Wishlist

January 19, 2011

I’d like to take this time to compile all the thoughts swirling around in my head regarding tanking.  This isn’t necessarily a post about the patch notes or the PTR, but it does stem from the changes happening.

Let me preface this by saying that I love bear tanks(shocker, I know) and I love what Blizzard has done with them throughout the years.  I’m definitely enjoying myself just as much as I was when I first started bear-ing it up, if not more since it feels more dynamic.

There are a few things that I would like to address and even lobby for a change, just to smooth out the kinks that exist.

AoE Threat:

Yes, AoE threat is manageable, but that’s where it stops.  I don’t expect us to be powerhouses in AoE threat as well as Single Target, but the difference between a Bear’s AoE threat and the other 3 tanks’, assuming equal skill and gear, is most definitely noticeable.  I would like to have slightly better snap.  Thrash is great and all, but with swipe’s damage output being so low, it doesn’t quite make up for it.  It’s missing that extra kick.

I’ve seen a lot of suggestions, from ludicrous to reasonable, for how to fix this, and I’ve come up with one of the better solutions, I think, to making AoE threat as a Bear less obnoxious.

  • Buff the damage on Thrash.  Fix the bleed portion to not be mitigated by armor(I assume this is some sort of weird bug).
  • Bring the cooldown of Swipe down to 3 seconds, but slightly lower its damage to compensate for the shorter CD.  Not only does this give us more frequency with which to push our AoE buttons, it should also help out the bears still leveling.  Because, let’s face it, swipe damage and threat is garbage from the moment we train it now.

Implications of AoE changes on Single Target:

Now, I know the risk of buffing our AoE spells.  It would mean we’d want to push them for single target, and that honestly just can’t happen.  With Berserk bringing in organized Chaos and trying to build and maintain a 3stack Pulverize while weaving in Thrash is enough on its own, adding in something else to our single target threat because it gives max TPS would just make single target threat a mess.

For those of you that have the memory of a goldfish, I’ll remind you of what I just said: “Buff the damage on Thrash”.

Buffing the damage on Thrash (or lowering the damage on Lacerate, which is what’s occurring), will cause Thrash to be an even better single-target threat button to push than Lacerate.  That’s even how it is now.  Around 10k AP(which is not hard to get, by any standards), Thrash outscales Lacerate easily and becomes our second highest TPS ability.  With the constant repetition of “We want AoE separated from Single Target” from Ghost Crawler during Beta, this occurrence leaves me baffled.  I don’t mind it, except for the fact that it’s causing our Single Target threat to be nerfed.  (The nerf isn’t that bad.  You shouldn’t notice it all that much.)

Additional Solution:

Naturally, that isn’t everything I have up my sleeve.  Truly, our AoE threat needs something else.  And here’s the kick:

  • Mangle(Bear Form) now shares a cooldown with the ability Thrash.  That, in turn, would change Berserk to act like this:
  • From: “Your Lacerate periodic damage has a 30% chance to refresh the cooldown of your Mangle (Bear) ability and make it cost no rage….”
  • To:  “Your Lacerate periodic damage has a 30% chance to refresh the cooldown of your Mangle (Bear) ability and make it cost no rage, and a 10-15% chance to refresh the cooldown of your Thrash ability….”

This kind of solution would not only make our AoE threat better in the long-term, but also give us the choice of AoE v Single Target abilities the other tank classes have that we are lacking.  It would also give our AoE threat a little more interest.

To do this, however, would mean losing a fairly significant portion of our single target threat(Thrash).  Combating that issue would simply require leaving Lacerate, Pulverize and Maul alone (mangle is too ridiculous), and probably even buffing the threat/damage capabilities of Pulverize or Lacerate.

AoE Mitigation:

Druids tend to take the most damage on AoE packs.  It’s no secret, and even I won’t pretend that it’s not annoying to some measure.  Since its introduction, Savage Defense has been the weakest form of Block against multiple targets.  One hit and it’s gone.  If nothing else, it’s a flawed mechanic, especially in light of the buffs Blood Shield(Death Knight block) is receiving.

Savage Defense counts as an Absorb(again, see Blood Shield), yet it acts like a single-hit block.  There is an unbelievably simple solution to this and that is to make it a real absorb.  If the next hit doesn’t add up to the size of the proc, then it shouldn’t go away.

Addressing Stampeding Roar:

I like this ability, I truly do.  I use it a lot while raiding to help both myself and my raid team, and often get asked to use it by quite a few people.  I know a lot don’t share my sentiment, and I can see why: it’s generally overlooked because it seems so… insignificant.  If you ask me, I’d say people underestimate it.  But I digress…

One of the best suggestions I’ve ever read for it was done by Miirkat (seen here), and it was in response to the shapeshifting nerf.  Even if that weren’t happening, I would be behind this change 100%.

That is… Allow us to talent, and/or glyph, Stampeding Roar to make it better than what it is.

Talented: Gives Stampeding Roar the ability to remove/grant immunity to roots(for the feral only), cost less rage/energy, increases the range by 10 yards and lowers the cooldown by 30 seconds.

Glyphed: Increases the duration by 2 seconds. (Major Glyph)

This kind of change just makes that spell so much more appealing both on a PvE and PvP front.  I think it could be thrown into Stampede without too much issue, and then I might actually spec 2/2 to get the reduced CD for raiding.

General Quality of Life:

There’s only two things I care to mention, but I don’t really care one way or the other if they’re changed.  Would they be nice? Sure.  Imperative to have? Not really.

  • Enrage: Still having the detrimental side effect is asinine. 4T10 made this ability amazing, not only because of the mini-CD, but because it suddenly didn’t hurt our damage intake to push it.
  • Feral Charge(Bear Form): Rage cost removed and allow it to generate rage instead.  I tend to never use this ability at the start of a pull because it wastes precious rage.  Having it generate rage just plain gives Bears the necessary resources to have on a 0-rage pull with Enrage on CD.

And there you have it.  Sort of.  I feel like I’m forgetting a point somewhere, but oh well.

EDIT: Blizzard has responded to my post about this issue in the Tanking forum and have confirmed that the formula I’ve found is correct and working as intended.

When Blizzard announced the vengeance cap to be 10% of our Maximum Health, everyone assumed that this is entirely true. So if we are tanking with 160k Health, then our maximum Vengeance is assumed to be 16k. For the past couple of weeks, many tanks have found that we could not push our Vengeance any higher than ~77-80% of the maximum Vengeance.

There were two lines of thought. Fasc’s spreadsheet assumed that Vengeance is simply capping at 7.8% of Maximum Health, while the original version of my spreadsheet assumed that we just weren’t being hit hard enough.

Since then, further testing done by Reesi and reports from other tanks coming in suggests that we are definitely capping at around ~7.7-8.0% of Maximum Health, and that the percentage is not constant and varies depending on our gear.

I begin investigating this issue, collecting numbers from Reesi, and have since found out why Vengeance is not capping as we expected. This is the standard equation used to calculate our health from the amount of stamina we have:

health = 14 * (stamina - 20) + base health + 20

Where base health for a level 85 druid is 39533 (or 41509 for Taurens) and we expect Max Vengeance to be health * 0.1, however Max Vengeance seems to be calculated at:

vengeance = stamina + 0.1 * base health

Meaning that while Health is now calculated at 14x of Stamina (since 4.0.1), Max Vengeance seems to be assuming that Health is still calculated at 10x of Stamina (as it used to be pre-Cataclysm)

And that explains why we are capping vengeance lower than what we have expected. This equation is accurate for the few numbers that Reesi has given me: 182899 Health Fully raid buffed with 10259 Stamina was giving her 14212 Vengeance instead of the expected 18289, but with the new equation, 10259 + 3953 = 14212, it fits perfectly. 168367 Health with 9221 Stamina was giving her 9221 + 3953 = 13174 vengeance instead of the expected 16836.

My spreadsheet has been updated with this new finding and now correctly takes into account the correct equation for the vengeance cap.